AKINWALE ABOLUWADE
Forty years after walking down the aisle to say ‘we do,’ the President of the Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria, Bishop Francis Wale Oke, and his better half, Rev. Victoria Tokunbo, affirm that the grace of God makes the difference in their marriage just as it makes the impossible possible. In this interview, the duo gave their perspectives on facts that underline the adventure called the marriage institution and the secret of an enduring union.
Daddy, how did you meet Mummy?
We first met each other at our family church, St Peter’s Anglican Church, Aremo, Ibadan, although nothing happened. Later, we met at The Polytechnic, Ibadan. We were in the same fellowship and were in the Choir together. I was in the executive of the Fellowship and during the holidays, we did follow-up on our members and Mummy was one of the members in my group that I had to follow up. It brought us close though it never crossed our hearts that we were going to be married in future. Both of us also belonged to the Christ Ambassador Evangelistic Team. One day as I was going out and I was already serving as an administrator of the Evangelistic Team, Mummy was coming in and the spirit of God said to me, ‘that is your wife’. That was the first inkling I had that she would be my wife.
How long did you court?
We courted for one and a half years. I proposed to her on the 19th May, 1982; two days after I stepped into the Ministry full time. I signed an agreement with God on the 17th of May that I would do no other job than to serve Him. I was expecting her to say, ‘come back for my answer’, but no, she was just smiling. I asked her why she was smiling and she told me that the Lord had told her 18 months earlier that I would be her husband. Then we began to fellowship and pray for one another and on 17th December, 1983, we got married.
Apart from the fact that God told you Mummy was going to be your wife, what attributes did you find appealing in her?
As we were taught in those days, our parameters were holiness, godliness, prayerfulness and commitment to the work of God. All these I saw in her. I saw holiness, godliness, passion for the word of God, fear of God and prayerfulness. These Godly virtues already endeared her to me. This was on top of the fact that God told me that she would be my wife. Our God is not a sadist. He will never ask you to marry someone you do not love or that you cannot grow up to love. We are to love everyone as believers. But if someone is going to be your spouse, there must be certain things that excite you in him or her over and above the fact that God asked you to marry the person. God provides for such feelings provided they are not abused. I saw these attributes in Mummy. She was also a beautiful girl and she is still beautiful even till today. Anytime I look at her, I still see the girl of 1982. The woman you love never grows old.
Sir, 40 years of marriage is a lengthy time. During this time, what were the most challenging experiences you had and how did you overcome them?
We had our challenges but then, challenges are the food of Champions. But the one that stood out was the loss of our first child, Dorcas. It was a very traumatic experience for us. We did not see it coming. Though I had a vision but I did not interpret it correctly. I held a Rose flower in my hand and I was standing by a grave-side. And I was saying, ‘this is the only rose in my hand’ and I threw it into the grave’ and the vision disappeared. It was shortly after that Dorcas died on 26th July, 2002. It was very, very painful. If not that we were anchored in the faith of Christ, the fact that Christ died and rose again and that there is the resurrection of the redeemed in the end time, I could have run crazy. Dorcas was my split image, very brilliant, a lover of God, she served God with the whole of her heart. But we are consoled that she had gone home to be with the Lord and she is resident in heaven. Our faith in Christ and His Word saw us through. We remember her now with joy knowing that she is in heaven. So that gives us joy that she is safe with God.
Daddy, noting that no human being is perfect, what are the attributes Mummy does not have and which you wished she had?
Mummy can be very blunt and direct. I wish she was more diplomatic. She is the typical Ijesha woman. She is frank and blunt to a fault. If you don’t understand her, you will take offense but I have grown to love her for it because many times, I would have taken a wrong step, it was that attribute that always saved the situation. So, what I consider to be a negative streak has turned out to be an asset to our lives and marriage.
Mummy, what about you?
When I married Daddy, he was a Preacher. He was always on the move. And that is the situation till today. Then, Daddy always wants result quick quick and I always tell him to be more patient because patience is a virtue. But, I trust the Lord who brought us together will see us through the remaining years of our marriage.
So, how do you handle Daddy’s absence when he is away on ministerial assignment?
Hmnn… It started right after our honeymoon. I think what is most important is that a woman must understand her purpose in her marriage. I met daddy as a Minister. I remember one day, the Lord told me, I am giving you a mission statement for this marriage. And God gave me Isaiah 60:7b. God said through me, he was going to glorify the house of His glory. So, anytime I was missing Daddy, I would meditate in my heart that this man was an Evangelist and he is still an Evangelist till today. During our honeymoon, he went out of the house twice to minister. I did not find that pleasant. But anytime I am at a crossroad, I always remind myself of Isaiah 60: 7b that the Lord gave me. So I have received the help of the Lord to cope with the situation as expressly stated in the Book of Acts 26:23. I find solace in these two scriptures the Lord gave me. When we moved here, I saw myriads of innumerable angels and I was comforted that so long as I follow this man, the Lord told me, he would always be there for me. Daddy is my Priest, my teacher and my mentor. He is always there for me. And following him has paid great dividends.
Can you share with us about two or three heartwarming experiences in your marriage?
When our first child, Dorcas was born, I was very thrilled. I was expecting a boy so when they told me my wife gave birth to a female child, there was a ting of disappointment but the moment I set my eyes on her, it was love at first sight. When we moved to our own house too, I was very excited. When we received the PCU license, I was very happy. There have been so many exciting and heartwarming moments. I give God all the glory!
God says in the Scriptures, ‘I hate divorce’ yet, divorce rate is so alarming globally. Mummy, what advice do you have for couples on how they can sustain their homes and thereby mitigate divorce rate?
This is food for thought. I see every marriage as a project that you ought to pray over and constantly ask God to help you. Divorce is a foundational problem. Many people just jump into marriage without seeking the face of God. A lot of couples also take counsel from wrong people. So my advice is, see marriage as a project and pray continuously over it. Go on retreat so you can really have time to seek the face of God and receive answers. Also, don’t take counsel from wrong people because a wrong counsel can bring a home down. Settle your disagreement amicably. For us in our marriage, we agreed to settle our disagreements by ourselves. We made it a standing rule not to divulge any issue we had to outsiders. We talk to ourselves. But most of these couples who find themselves in divorce were seeking counsel from wrong places and a wrong counsel can destroy whatever it is you have been building for years. As a woman, don’t be contentious. You are a helpmeet to your husband. Don’t tell him, ‘after all you are a graduate and I am a graduate…… ‘. For instance when we got married, I had gifts that I also wanted to use, but Daddy said, ‘no, you take care of the home. I cannot be going out and you too will be out, who will take care of the children? So, I stayed at home to take care of the home and pray. I can assure you, I do not regret obeying him. God has been faithful till today.
Mummy, how will you advise wives of Ministers of God who find it difficult to reconcile or cope with their husband’s ministerial assignment?
I will advise them to calm down and listen to their husbands. “Don’t set yourself up against your husband’s ministry, otherwise you may be setting yourself up against God and his kingdom. Whatever your husband tells you to do, please do it.” Take the issue of finance as an example. I see my money as my husband’s money and his money as my money. Many times I have received lump sums of money as gift and my husband would say, ‘that money is going into ministry work’ and I will just comply. This has happened many times. And the resultant effect is that God has been meeting my needs in miraculous ways beyond my wildest imagination. This is the result of obedience to one’s husband. Be your husband’s friend. Be his number 1 supporter. Let your submission to God and to your husband be total.
A lot of women are enduring rather than enjoying their marriages. Mummy, what advice do you have for them?
I will advise them to show their husbands pure love. I heard a true story of a man who sent his wife packing. After some time, the man had challenges with his eyes and was almost going blind so he needed a donor so they could, at least, save one eye. When this woman heard, she came forward and donated an eye. When this man heard about what his estranged wife did, it completely softened his heart towards the woman and that became a reconciliatory point. So let wives love and submit to their husbands. And let the husband show genuine love to their wives. Also for the purpose of safety, they should be mindful of who they confide in and take counsel from. Whatever it is they are passing through they should get advice from godly quarters.
In the face of constant domestic violence, what can the husband or wife do?
MUMMY’S RESPONSE: I will enjoin whomsoever is the victim to step aside to pray and hear God. If he or she really prays, God will sort everything out.
DADDY’S RESPONSE: Nobody should stay in an abusive relationship. If the violence is becoming life threatening, the victim must step aside until there is a supervised change. It has become rampant now to see husbands killing their wives and vice versa.
Daddy, what advice do you have for the youths on how to hear God when choosing their future partners?
Youths, please be intimate with God. Prioritize your relationship with God. He does talk to his children that are close to him, that take time to pray. But when your spiritual life is not developed, you will not hear God. Even when he speaks, you have your own preference. So, He will keep quiet. Therefore, be intimate with God and prioritize Godly virtue over and above worldly virtues like beauty or riches or status. These will fade away. If youths do take to these pieces of advice, we will have more stable homes and reduction in divorce cases.
Online dating is now so rampant. Daddy, what do you have to say about this?
Online dating has its pros and cons. It is possible to meet a future partner online, but don’t go into the relationship blindly because your marital life will not be online. You are not going to have children online. Online can introduce you, but you must get to relate, you must get to know each other’s background. I appeal to Pastors in all churches to do their work by guiding our Youths in this respect. Teach these children that courtship is never by proxy. They need to sit with themselves and discuss about their future together. They need to agree on principles that will guide their homes. My wife and I settled the principles that would guide our future. We laid the foundation because the foundation will determine how strong the home you are building will be.
So, what is your take on the effect of Social Media before, during and after the wedding?
Social media is amoral. It is a matter of how you use it. Its use has been bastardized. It is being used to indoctrinate people, to turn them into hard core criminals. Yet, Social Media is being used for mass evangelization. It is what you look for that you find on Social Media. I use it to study the Word. I have a number of Bible versions on my phone. I use it to preach. So, let us put Social Media to good use. Base your life on biblical virtues, on the fear of God. If you are not free from worldly flesh, you will want to feast the beast in you and you will fall into sin and then it does not become profitable to you. So, the choice is yours to make whether Social Media will be a blessing or a curse to you.
When it comes to choosing life partners, where do we draw the balance between God’s will and one’s will?
God is not a sadist. He is a good God. He will never give you a bad thing. He will give the desire of your heart so long as your desire aligns with His will for you, because every good and perfect gift comes from God. If your life lines up with the Word of God, He will give you your heart’s desire and there would be no regret. We had a debate in my University days in UNILAG one day. The question was, as a graduate, what if God asks you to marry a Primary School Certificate holder? My response was, I will go for it because if it is God asking me to do it, I trust him. He is a good God. He loves me. He will give me the best and if that was his best for me, I will go for it because he will pour grace upon me to handle the situation and even make her a graduate like me and also navigate the union to a glorious end. My answer ended the debate. So, I will advise every youth to trust and love God. Honor him by listening to Him and obeying Him and it shall be well with you. To curb the excesses on Social Media, I will advise that families pray together. A family that prays together stays together. Ideas will flow. God will speak. They will be able to mind their businesses and be free from pollution and forge ahead.
Finally sir, how do we use Technology in a profitable manner? For example, it is common to see an entire family addicted to mobile phones? The father, the mother and children are on the phone 24hours a day. How can this be overcome?
We should use technology and not allow technology to use us. We must create balance in everything. We must create time for God, our partner and our children. We must create time to eat, pray and discuss together as a family. Do not let technology cheat you of this precious stage in your family because your family are your clothes (as Yorubas will say, ‘eniyan laso mi’). There is a stage that you need to bond together as a family. Don’t sow a negative seed into your future. Don’t replace your family with phones. Don’t substitute your family with laptops. Because a time is going to come that you too will need their attention. Technology is gradually waging war on humanity. Artificial intelligence is gradually taking over. So it is up to you to use technology positively and not allow technology to use you.
